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	<title>Comments on: Matthew Engelke Book Review: A Problem of Presence &#8211; Beyond Scripture in an African Church. What Do the Masowe Apostles and Post-Modern Christians have in Common?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.gladysganiel.com/book-reviews/matthew-engelke-book-review-a-problem-of-presence-beyond-scripture-in-an-african-church-what-do-the-masowe-apostles-and-post-modern-christians-have-in-common/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.gladysganiel.com/book-reviews/matthew-engelke-book-review-a-problem-of-presence-beyond-scripture-in-an-african-church-what-do-the-masowe-apostles-and-post-modern-christians-have-in-common/</link>
	<description>Perspectives on religion &#38; politics</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 09:26:08 +0100</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Walter</title>
		<link>http://www.gladysganiel.com/book-reviews/matthew-engelke-book-review-a-problem-of-presence-beyond-scripture-in-an-african-church-what-do-the-masowe-apostles-and-post-modern-christians-have-in-common/comment-page-1/#comment-581</link>
		<dc:creator>Walter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 12:13:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gladysganiel.com/book-reviews/matthew-engelke-book-review-a-problem-of-presence-beyond-scripture-in-an-african-church-what-do-the-masowe-apostles-and-post-modern-christians-have-in-common/#comment-581</guid>
		<description>In the Jowani Masowe weChishanu,  We also know that the larger part of the bible is false. Having been doctored by the Romans. And also that some biblical texts are still being discovered and this raises a lot of questions about the authenticity of the Christian bible. We are now aware that their are a lot of texts taken away from the Christian bible so much so that we are left in a position where we can only trust the Holy Spirit as it speaks to us in the present.

Much of what the Holy Spirit teaches us in our church is the same message as can be found in some parts of the Christian, the Quaran, teh Ethiopian bibles. 
We also take it from that Jesus was the Word and he never used the Christian Bible because their was no need becasue He was Bible in the making. John the Baptist never used the bible, even the Apostles never had any need for the bible because they were with the Bible in their midst, &#039;Live and Direct&#039; if you like. So our position is not a very strange one to the well informed.

We are not in fear of any Politics. When the first whites came to our land as colonialists and set up a government, One of the first people to take them head-on was Jowani. Jowani told the Apostles to shun whiteman schools, their diptanks for our cattle, their hospitals, not to go to formal employment etc. Jowani told the black population to shun the colonialist government. For all this Jowani was hunted down, detained on several occasions, incacerated, beaten up, and tortured.
Despite all this, Jowani told them at Marondera court that blacks would get out of the country, arm themselves and come back and fight for their land. This was around the early 40s, and this was prophecy to the armed struggle which then followed starting in the 1960s. He told them that them, the whites, had no more power to kill Him as they had done in their land (when John the Baptist was beheaded)

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the Jowani Masowe weChishanu,  We also know that the larger part of the bible is false. Having been doctored by the Romans. And also that some biblical texts are still being discovered and this raises a lot of questions about the authenticity of the Christian bible. We are now aware that their are a lot of texts taken away from the Christian bible so much so that we are left in a position where we can only trust the Holy Spirit as it speaks to us in the present.</p>
<p>Much of what the Holy Spirit teaches us in our church is the same message as can be found in some parts of the Christian, the Quaran, teh Ethiopian bibles.<br />
We also take it from that Jesus was the Word and he never used the Christian Bible because their was no need becasue He was Bible in the making. John the Baptist never used the bible, even the Apostles never had any need for the bible because they were with the Bible in their midst, &#8216;Live and Direct&#8217; if you like. So our position is not a very strange one to the well informed.</p>
<p>We are not in fear of any Politics. When the first whites came to our land as colonialists and set up a government, One of the first people to take them head-on was Jowani. Jowani told the Apostles to shun whiteman schools, their diptanks for our cattle, their hospitals, not to go to formal employment etc. Jowani told the black population to shun the colonialist government. For all this Jowani was hunted down, detained on several occasions, incacerated, beaten up, and tortured.<br />
Despite all this, Jowani told them at Marondera court that blacks would get out of the country, arm themselves and come back and fight for their land. This was around the early 40s, and this was prophecy to the armed struggle which then followed starting in the 1960s. He told them that them, the whites, had no more power to kill Him as they had done in their land (when John the Baptist was beheaded)</p>
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		<title>By: Walter</title>
		<link>http://www.gladysganiel.com/book-reviews/matthew-engelke-book-review-a-problem-of-presence-beyond-scripture-in-an-african-church-what-do-the-masowe-apostles-and-post-modern-christians-have-in-common/comment-page-1/#comment-558</link>
		<dc:creator>Walter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 09:59:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gladysganiel.com/book-reviews/matthew-engelke-book-review-a-problem-of-presence-beyond-scripture-in-an-african-church-what-do-the-masowe-apostles-and-post-modern-christians-have-in-common/#comment-558</guid>
		<description>He observes that prophets can be considered mediums for communicating the ‘live and direct’ faith, or that they may ‘generate the dangers that a live and direct faith is supposed to dispel’ (p. 136), namely constructing messages and practices that are harmful to the faithful. 


On this one I agree with Matthew. As a member of the Jowani Masowe weChishanu, I have found this to be the major reason of the many splits that have happened resulting in numerous groupings and subgroupings prctising the same faith but differing on very minute issues much of which is petty.

I have personally observed also that you would expect people to be strog faithfuls in a church for the right reason of knowing God and craving to one day be in Heaven.
Many people I have come across personally gradually slide off the main purpose of the gospel the longer they stay in this religion. Because of too much emphasis on prophecy and faith healing, many people end up frequenting the services and being spirited devouts but for the healing and the healing of their families and prophecies about their lives and whether they shall be successful in life etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He observes that prophets can be considered mediums for communicating the ‘live and direct’ faith, or that they may ‘generate the dangers that a live and direct faith is supposed to dispel’ (p. 136), namely constructing messages and practices that are harmful to the faithful. </p>
<p>On this one I agree with Matthew. As a member of the Jowani Masowe weChishanu, I have found this to be the major reason of the many splits that have happened resulting in numerous groupings and subgroupings prctising the same faith but differing on very minute issues much of which is petty.</p>
<p>I have personally observed also that you would expect people to be strog faithfuls in a church for the right reason of knowing God and craving to one day be in Heaven.<br />
Many people I have come across personally gradually slide off the main purpose of the gospel the longer they stay in this religion. Because of too much emphasis on prophecy and faith healing, many people end up frequenting the services and being spirited devouts but for the healing and the healing of their families and prophecies about their lives and whether they shall be successful in life etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Walter</title>
		<link>http://www.gladysganiel.com/book-reviews/matthew-engelke-book-review-a-problem-of-presence-beyond-scripture-in-an-african-church-what-do-the-masowe-apostles-and-post-modern-christians-have-in-common/comment-page-1/#comment-555</link>
		<dc:creator>Walter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 09:56:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gladysganiel.com/book-reviews/matthew-engelke-book-review-a-problem-of-presence-beyond-scripture-in-an-african-church-what-do-the-masowe-apostles-and-post-modern-christians-have-in-common/#comment-555</guid>
		<description>I am lucky to have been involved in Matthew&#039;s researches. I am also a Jowani Masowe weChishanu Apostle. I was a member of the Nzira sect of Jowani Masowe at the time of Matthew&#039;s visists and documentations. The place is Chitungwiza, Mayambara village and the self styled shrine is Jurani Firi Santa.

Only one observation for the benefit of evryone interested. We of Jowani Masowe believe in the birth and death and ressurection of Jesus Christ. We however believe that Jesus has two comings and that that was his first coming which he did that time in Israel/Palestine/Jerusalem. We hold that Jesus is going to make a second coming and that coming He is coming to Africa and to the black people as a &#039;black Jesus&#039;.

Now, in Jowani Masowe we hold that what we are going through now is a systematic process towards the second coming of Christ. Which we believe the same process was gone through in the Western Whiteman&#039;s land. We have got well prophesied phases of this &#039;journey&#039; towards the second coming of Christ. We have it well recorded orally as is our tradition.

Therefore the shunning of the holy bible is due to the undersanding that the same long story as documented in the bible is what we are going through ourselves towards the &#039;Second Coming&#039;.
So we also dont believe that Jesus died for us. We believe that Jesus was killed and that it wasnt God&#039;s intention that His Word be persecuted and murdered. 
Our dispensation starts with John the Baptist, (Jowani) anouncing the true African gospel for the Africans, then the whole long process unfolds as a repeat of what happened in the whiteman&#039;s land.

My many thanks go to the various aouthors tackling this subject of our church. It puts us on the map and makes our religion relevant to the world. Despite our reservations about how the subject is tackled in terms of the truth and / or falsity of some of the expostulations. These efforts by these writers and also special thanks to you Gladys for your interest and pursuance of the subject matter. For that also was prophesied in our church that it will come to pass when the once sacred and hidden religion would be proclaimed from high places and everyone shall get to hear about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am lucky to have been involved in Matthew&#8217;s researches. I am also a Jowani Masowe weChishanu Apostle. I was a member of the Nzira sect of Jowani Masowe at the time of Matthew&#8217;s visists and documentations. The place is Chitungwiza, Mayambara village and the self styled shrine is Jurani Firi Santa.</p>
<p>Only one observation for the benefit of evryone interested. We of Jowani Masowe believe in the birth and death and ressurection of Jesus Christ. We however believe that Jesus has two comings and that that was his first coming which he did that time in Israel/Palestine/Jerusalem. We hold that Jesus is going to make a second coming and that coming He is coming to Africa and to the black people as a &#8216;black Jesus&#8217;.</p>
<p>Now, in Jowani Masowe we hold that what we are going through now is a systematic process towards the second coming of Christ. Which we believe the same process was gone through in the Western Whiteman&#8217;s land. We have got well prophesied phases of this &#8216;journey&#8217; towards the second coming of Christ. We have it well recorded orally as is our tradition.</p>
<p>Therefore the shunning of the holy bible is due to the undersanding that the same long story as documented in the bible is what we are going through ourselves towards the &#8216;Second Coming&#8217;.<br />
So we also dont believe that Jesus died for us. We believe that Jesus was killed and that it wasnt God&#8217;s intention that His Word be persecuted and murdered.<br />
Our dispensation starts with John the Baptist, (Jowani) anouncing the true African gospel for the Africans, then the whole long process unfolds as a repeat of what happened in the whiteman&#8217;s land.</p>
<p>My many thanks go to the various aouthors tackling this subject of our church. It puts us on the map and makes our religion relevant to the world. Despite our reservations about how the subject is tackled in terms of the truth and / or falsity of some of the expostulations. These efforts by these writers and also special thanks to you Gladys for your interest and pursuance of the subject matter. For that also was prophesied in our church that it will come to pass when the once sacred and hidden religion would be proclaimed from high places and everyone shall get to hear about it.</p>
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